Get used to planning your routes to avoid road humps! Making the passenger get out before the ascent helps. Regulation size humps are ok, just, but private, oversized ones can be stressful.

I'm on the 25/30mm Eibach/Mazda springs that have probably settled further.

 

I am having a lot of problems with road humps and am looking for ways to raise the car.
Can this be done?
I guess I should check whether I have the sports setting. How can I find out about this?

 

Get used to planning your routes to avoid road humps! Making the passenger get out before the ascent helps. Regulation size humps are ok, just, but private, oversized ones can be stressful.

I'm on the 25/30mm Eibach/Mazda springs that have probably settled further.

How is the ride on them, what did they replace?

Have you any pictures of your car to show the drop?

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I'm used to the ride but have only driven the standard height car for about 15 minutes (test drive, 15 minutes was all it took to decide on an MX-5). Both my MX-5s were lowered by the dealer before I picked them up.

My main reason for lowering was aesthetic but, if you believe the stories, this 'corrects' the suspension settings. A little googling will throw up many retellings of how the mk3 had to be raised before it was launched in order to comply with pedestrian impact regulations. Mazda, allegedly, did this by fitting taller springs and the suspension geometry was compromised. By offering the lowering kit Mazda were, allegedly again, able to bypass the regulations and get the car back to its original design height.

That may be correct or just an urban myth but in support of it the suspension specialists Wheels In Motion (WIM) have stated that adding the lowering kit does improve the suspension geometry.

As stated earlier I did it for the looks. And it looks so much better! You just have to put up with the downside of less suspension travel and your dangly bits being closer to the ground. It sounds appalling when you drag them across an oversized hump.

Garffey recently put up a picture of our two cars side by side and the ride height at the front can be compared. I'll see if I've a pic that shows the rear.

 

 

IMG_1626.JPG

How much are you dropped here, and what setup?

Thanks

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It's classed as either a 25mm or 30mm drop. I can't remember which. It is the kit that the Mazda dealers fit and described as Eibach. I believe it can be obtained from Eibach direct but the springs are painted a different colour.

The box label for the kit

 

Ok great, I've cancelled my order of coilovers and will get the lowering kit and uprated ARBS

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I lowered both my NCs, the Miyako 1.8L ragtop, and the Sportblack 2.0 'lecky hardtop. Both cars were lowered using the same Eibach made springs as Mazda use in their lowering kits. After a full 4 wheel alignment on both cars the 1.8 - which used the standard black shocks was transformed, the handling was superb and very predictable. The 2.0 litre on the other hand - which uses the yellow Bilstein shocks - never felt right even after 3 attempts to align it using different settings. I've since read a few similar stories of cars fitted with the Bilsteins as standard not liking the lowering springs, there's a definite mismatch between the spring and damper rates.

To further add, I now run a 1994 NA RS which has the Meisters fitted and they are absolutely incredible, the car just feels like it's on rails and although slightly stiff it's not uncomfortably so, yet it deals with our potholed excuse for roads brilliantly. Jerrick and the chaps at Meister are are also excellent people to deal with. Given the choice in future and I was changing suspension on any MX5 derivative, I'd go for the Meisters every time, they're well worth the extra expense ....... and they look pretty damned sexy too

Pics of both lowered NCs and one of the NA on its Meisters

 

Having now fitted the full BBR kit + Racing Beat ARBs I can confirm what I would now call the Bilstein Jiggle when fitted with the Eibach Springs- Dealership supply/install, geo by my own trusted geo guy. In hindsight the set up was OK but as Dewi has said there must just be a slight mismatch between the two and in Dewi's case the bog standard non Bilstein shocks were the better match.

Everyone will give their opinion on the best set up but to be honest I would take my time, do some homework, for example the Meisters I have heard from some don't suit the NC as well as the NA & NB but that could be down to chosen spring rates and mismatched damping. Just my 2ps worth.

 

I had Eibach springs on an NC2 with bilsteins and 18" wheels, the ride was awful.

I now have eibachs on the ND with standard shocks and the ride and handling are great.

 

So any recommended lowering spring to go with the bilstein shocks that will give a good ride?

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In my opinion any shorter spring for the Bilsteins takes them out of their comfort zone, the ride then becomes very crashy on undulating surfaces, apparently the 'non sport' springs in this situation cope better. If all you want is an improvement in cosmetic appearance that's fine but handling wise your better off with the OE set up. Obviously changing shocks or moving to a complete third party coilover involves additional expense but at least then the shock is matched to the spring length and inevitable increased rate.

 

In my opinion any shorter spring for the Bilsteins takes them out of their comfort zone, the ride then becomes very crashy on undulating surfaces, apparently the 'non sport' springs in this situation cope better. If all you want is an improvement in cosmetic appearance that's fine but handling wise your better off with the OE set up. Obviously changing shocks or moving to a complete third party coilover involves additional expense but at least then the shock is matched to the spring length and inevitable increased rate.

With this build money isn't so much of a problem, handling and appearance are important. Ideally I want to drop a further 3-40mm and have less body roll. Coilovers it is then

The only other option is Koni shocks and some suitable springs, thoughts?

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Lowering a car usually increases body roll as you move the roll centre further away from the centre of gravity, hence the reason lowering coils have high spring rates in an attempt to reduce this. It depends what you want to use the car for, a track based solution with minimal available damper travel ( especially rear) is going to be potentially uncomfortable on the road whereas a road setup is inevitably a compromise. The Konis and the height adjustable Ohlins preserve rear damper travel to some extent whereas on the Meisters it's very limited on the NC

 

What's your take on the bilsteins B14's and the Tein Flex z coilovers? Both within budget and they looks great

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Hi Lucas,

to be honest you have asked question after after question, all techy stuff but you appear to have your head on your shoulders in many areas, i.e. you have done some fault finding but it has been replacement diagnosis techniques rather than first principal fault finding, i.e. diagnose then repair rather than bombshell the problem with possible solutions and keep the finger crossed.

Equally you are asking questions about suspension set ups, WOW, these are so subjective and in brief what do you want from the car? All road use, track day use, autocross etc, there are so many variables here that could blind you.

In short my advice is to call the real experts, have a chat about what you want from your car and make informed purchases from the real experts. Look at my signature for example, the suspension I have suits me well but this was after hours of disscusions with BBR, especially regarding the ARBs.

Half the problem is that you may ask the question on multiple forums about an NC, well intentioned folks will tell you what works well with their NA/NB but this solution will notwork well on the NC.

I would simply advise that you e mail or call the company that I bought all my kit from, BBR on 01280700700 and discuss your specific requirements. Everyone will tell you their set up is the best because they will rarely have consulted with genuine experts and will never accept that better kits, model specific are out there.

My current suspension set up, all BBR cost around £1k give or take and it suits me well, others may hate it though hence my advice to speak to those that actually understand how suspension actually works.

No-one on this forum understands your specific needs, a 10 min chat with Neil will set you right..

HTH.

 

Hi Lucas,

to be honest you have asked question after after question, all techy stuff but you appear to have your head on your shoulders in many areas, i.e. you have done some fault finding but it has been replacement diagnosis techniques rather than first principal fault finding, i.e. diagnose then repair rather than bombshell the problem with possible solutions and keep the finger crossed.

Equally you are asking questions about suspension set ups, WOW, these are so subjective and in brief what do you want from the car? All road use, track day use, autocross etc, there are so many variables here that could blind you.

In short my advice is to call the real experts, have a chat about what you want from your car and make informed purchases from the real experts. Look at my signature for example, the suspension I have suits me well but this was after hours of disscusions with BBR, especially regarding the ARBs.

Half the problem is that you may ask the question on multiple forums about an NC, well intentioned folks will tell you what works well with their NA/NB but this solution will notwork well on the NC.

I would simply advise that you e mail or call the company that I bought all my kit from, BBR on 01280700700 and discuss your specific requirements. Everyone will tell you their set up is the best because they will rarely have consulted with genuine experts and will never accept that better kits, model specific are out there.

My current suspension set up, all BBR cost around £1k give or take and it suits me well, others may hate it though hence my advice to speak to those that actually understand how suspension actually works.

No-one on this forum understands your specific needs, a 10 min chat with Neil will set you right..

HTH.

Well after checking out the BBR website I have settled and bought the suspension package they provide, expensive but I hope when I get the super 200 package it will pay dividends

Thanks for your help.

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I hope the package suits you, as I have tried to convey the need of the individual are so unique and when a question about suspension gets asked for a specific model, in your case the NC, you are invariably bombarded with info relating to other models, this is as relevant as comparing what suits a Lada Riva. The NC in particulr tooka huge step away from the doube wishbonesispension of the NA & NB and went for a multi link rear suspension so realistically nothing really relates is worth comparing. Consider the NC as a new car altogether.

Also please get your geo set up by a knowlegeable person to optomise the package - just had mine done today after fitting the BBR springs specifically for the RC model. The original shop's set up was allover the place.

 

Lowering a car usually increases body roll as you move the roll centre further away from the centre of gravity, hence the reason lowering coils have high spring rates in an attempt to reduce this. It depends what you want to use the car for, a track based solution with minimal available damper travel ( especially rear) is going to be potentially uncomfortable on the road whereas a road setup is inevitably a compromise. The Konis and the height adjustable Ohlins preserve rear damper travel to some extent whereas on the Meisters it's very limited on the NC

Would fitting different drop link bushes or a different anti roll bar counter the tendency to roll more? I've just fitted a set of Meisters (as in yesterday), admittedly without as yet paying much attention to setting them correctly, and I did notice today the car rolled a bit, especially at the rear. I also have some unwanted knocking over small bumps, especially noticeable on a surface akin to a washboard (Bedfordshire roads are in an appalling state in places) I'm looking for a fix for the knocking and to get the most out of coilovers that cost about 40% of the cars value

 

Lowering a car usually increases body roll as you move the roll centre further away from the centre of gravity, hence the reason lowering coils have high spring rates in an attempt to reduce this. It depends what you want to use the car for, a track based solution with minimal available damper travel ( especially rear) is going to be potentially uncomfortable on the road whereas a road setup is inevitably a compromise. The Konis and the height adjustable Ohlins preserve rear damper travel to some extent whereas on the Meisters it's very limited on the NC

Would fitti

Hi Lucas,

to be honest you have asked question after after question, all techy stuff but you appear to have your head on your shoulders in many areas, i.e. you have done some fault finding but it has been replacement diagnosis techniques rather than first principal fault finding, i.e. diagnose then repair rather than bombshell the problem with possible solutions and keep the finger crossed.

Equally you are asking questions about suspension set ups, WOW, these are so subjective and in brief what do you want from the car? All road use, track day use, autocross etc, there are so many variables here that could blind you.

In short my advice is to call the real experts, have a chat about what you want from your car and make informed purchases from the real experts. Look at my signature for example, the suspension I have suits me well but this was after hours of disscusions with BBR, especially regarding the ARBs.

Half the problem is that you may ask the question on multiple forums about an NC, well intentioned folks will tell you what works well with their NA/NB but this solution will notwork well on the NC.

I would simply advise that you e mail or call the company that I bought all my kit from, BBR on 01280700700 and discuss your specific requirements. Everyone will tell you their set up is the best because they will rarely have consulted with genuine experts and will never accept that better kits, model specific are out there.

My current suspension set up, all BBR cost around £1k give or take and it suits me well, others may hate it though hence my advice to speak to those that actually understand how suspension actually works.

No-one on this forum understands your specific needs, a 10 min chat with Neil will set you right..

HTH.

Lowering a car usually increases body roll as you move the roll centre further away from the centre of gravity, hence the reason lowering coils have high spring rates in an attempt to reduce this. It depends what you want to use the car for, a track based solution with minimal available damper travel ( especially rear) is going to be potentially uncomfortable on the road whereas a road setup is inevitably a compromise. The Konis and the height adjustable Ohlins preserve rear damper travel to some extent whereas on the Meisters it's very limited on the NC

Would fitting different drop link bushes or a different anti roll bar counter the tendency to roll more? I've just fitted a set of Meisters (as in yesterday), admittedly without as yet paying much attention to setting them correctly, and I did notice today the car rolled a bit, especially at the rear. I also have some unwanted knocking over small bumps, especially noticeable on a surface akin to a washboard (Bedfordshire roads are in an appalling state in places) I'm looking for a fix for the knocking and to get the most out of coilovers that cost about 40% of the cars value

I believe there is some good info supplied above re springs, dampers and ARBs.

You probably don't want to hear this but Meisters are a great coil over on some cars, notably the Mk1/Mk2 but they do not have a great reputation on the Mk3 for road use, sometimes less can be more and can free up cash to spend on the likes of a good set of ARBs.

What springs are you currently using? I trust you have not used the original springs and are using something with an increased spring rate? Also a set of ARBs that work in tune with your dampening and spring rates is IMHO, essential for the NC to reduce it's tendency to roll.

When I first fitted the full BBR bespoke Koni/Spring set up I still found to much roll, I spoke with BBR and we discussed the issue I was having, Neil went off and did some research and came back with a recommendation to try a set of Racing Beat (25mm front ARB) for road use, they do a 32mm bar as well, both with matched rear ARBs but the 32mm is stricktly a track item and would not work well on the road.

The knock does sound like a failed droplink though, as for the bounce on a washboarded surface, it may sound counter intuitive but try setting the damper rebound setting, I assume the Meisters only have a rebound setting rather than a compression and rebound, a bit harder.

I speak through experience of setting the Koni shocks from their lowest setting, you need to tune them to work in harmony with the springs you have, the bounce you describe sounds exactly like I had with the OEM Bilstein and Eibach springs, they were under damped causing the bounce, when setting p the Konis I went through this similar phase until I knocked them up a couple or three clicks.

In all honesty though is speak directly to a real expert, BBR is a good starting point, there are of course other tuning 'experts' out there but in all honesty there are few that understand and implement complete packages as well as BBR do.

I hope this is of some use to you.

ng different drop link bushes or a different anti roll bar counter the tendency to roll more? I've just fitted a set of Meisters (as in yesterday), admittedly without as yet paying much attention to setting them correctly, and I did notice today the car rolled a bit, especially at the rear. I also have some unwanted knocking over small bumps, especially noticeable on a surface akin to a washboard (Bedfordshire roads are in an appalling state in places) I'm looking for a fix for the knocking and to get the most out of coilovers that cost about 40% of the cars value

 

Just been reading this and noted the bit about Meisters not being great on NCs. I've just had a set fitted and think they seem very good to me, and I chose these on a combination of advice from Blink and good reports from owners on forums.

Just wondering if there are any links to dissatisfied NC owners with Meisters? I was going to go for Ohlins but was convinced otherwise.

 

Just been reading this and noted the bit about Meisters not being great on NCs. I've just had a set fitted and think they seem very good to me, and I chose these on a combination of advice from Blink and good reports from owners on forums.

Just wondering if there are any links to dissatisfied NC owners with Meisters? I was going to go for Ohlins but was convinced otherwise.

No links as such but just anecdotal stuff picked up in 10 years of NC ownership, I have heard of some folks fitting them only to remove them, again, sorry this is all anecdotal and I can't find any specific links.

As per the post I made, it is more than just getting a set of adjustable coilovers fitted it is getting a complete complementary suspension system and naturally some people will have different preferences to others. If the driver is looking for outright max attack on the track then this will require a completely different set up than on the road, something that many tuners 'forget' and they end up selling inappropriate kit to drivers that will never track their car.

I may be wrong but I believe that Meisters are used in the MX5 Cup series, this is one reason some tuning companies sell them as a premium bit of kit for the road.

Ultimately a lot of it comes down to personal preference too. I know that before building my current '5, I had done a good few years of research, much of it based around the issues that Cosworth had with the Supercharger, BBR/Flyin' Miata and others bought the kit out from Cosworth and then set about getting the software right, sadly some tuning companies out there still insist on telling the public that the charger will trash your engine, 22k miles and counting mine has been nothing but reliable and economical on a distance run, obviously not great when you are constantly on boost i.e. short distance up and down the gears. I digress to a degree but my point being that in a similar manner to the research carried out for the charger, I equally researched many suspension set ups and based on BBRs 25 years or so experience with all things MX5 I opted for their self developed suspension kit.

Their set up ties in with this video of a Mazda developed 1g cornering capable road going NC:

Again, I genuinely apologise for not being able to provide links etc but years of research did tend to steer me away from the Meisters even although I know they work very well on other marks of MX5.

 

Just been reading this and noted the bit about Meisters not being great on NCs. I've just had a set fitted and think they seem very good to me, and I chose these on a combination of advice from Blink and good reports from owners on forums.

Just wondering if there are any links to dissatisfied NC owners with Meisters? I was going to go for Ohlins but was convinced otherwise.

No links as such but just anecdotal stuff picked up in 10 years of NC ownership, I have heard of some folks fitting them only to remove them, again, sorry this is all anecdotal and I can't find any specific links.

As per the post I made, it is more than just getting a set of adjustable coilovers fitted it is getting a complete complementary suspension system and naturally some people will have different preferences to others. If the driver is looking for outright max attack on the track then this will require a completely different set up than on the road, something that many tuners 'forget' and they end up selling inappropriate kit to drivers that will never track their car.

I may be wrong but I believe that Meisters are used in the MX5 Cup series, this is one reason some tuning companies sell them as a premium bit of kit for the road.

Ultimately a lot of it comes down to personal preference too. I know that before building my current '5, I had done a good few years of research, much of it based around the issues that Cosworth had with the Supercharger, BBR/Flyin' Miata and others bought the kit out from Cosworth and then set about getting the software right, sadly some tuning companies out there still insist on telling the public that the charger will trash your engine, 22k miles and counting mine has been nothing but reliable and economical on a distance run, obviously not great when you are constantly on boost i.e. short distance up and down the gears. I digress to a degree but my point being that in a similar manner to the research carried out for the charger, I equally researched many suspension set ups and based on BBRs 25 years or so experience with all things MX5 I opted for their self developed suspension kit.

Their set up ties in with this video of a Mazda developed 1g cornering capable road going NC:

Again, I genuinely apologise for not being able to provide links etc but years of research did tend to steer me away from the Meisters even although I know they work very well on other marks of MX5.

Spot on Steve .... all down to individual choice. I love reading all the opinions on set up / spring rates / cambers / etc etc etc . A lot of these opinions are based on other opinions , not on experience. You have driven your car on a challenging track following a lot of professional research and have experienced the outcome . Nuf said

 

Well I could be wrong here, and clearly you've been in the MX5 game a hell of a lot longer than I have, but I wonder if you're talking about previous iterations of the Meisters as opposed to the new generation CRDs? They're supposed to be far better.

I'm not all about defending things just cos I own them, but as I mentioned, I was all for fitting Ohlins DFVs but having had a chat with Blink (who have members of staff who own NCs on Meisters, whilst their supercharged NC runs the Ohlins) they said they'd happily fit Ohlins but for primarily road use they'd recommended the CRDs. I was told there's much more profit for them in supplying/fitting a set of DFVs, and whilst those might be marginally better on track, for me, the CRDs were better suited.

When Fraser from Blink took me for a run in their 'charged NC, he again reiterated that it wasn't quite as good on the road on its Ohlins.

Whether Blink have an agenda for pushing Meisters or not, I've no idea, though I can't see why they would when they list both on their site. I may yet add uprated roll bars etc, but for now I'm well chuffed as the car drives brilliantly. Obviously that's also down to a good alignment.

Anyway, that's just my tuppence'worth, I appreciate your input.

 

As you say, yes, a good alignment is essential on the NC in particular, the NCs chassis is really sensitive to bad or even marginal alignment. It could well be the case that the info I have accumulated on the Meisters may have been earlier versions, I also appreciate that a good set of adjustable coil overs gives a lot of flexibility in the car's final ride height and of course pre-loading of the springs, the biggest issue I would have with such a set up, I know myself far to well, would be that I'd constantly be seeking absolute perfection and thus constantly making adjustments, an expensive game as this would entail a re-alignment at every adjustment.

A good set of ARBs will control the roll of the car far more than springs do though, a point proven after I fitted the Racing Beat items. Good to chat tech and get differing views though. :thumbsup: